Another step back to normal

[spacegrrrl]

The NTSB briefing for me not only brought it all back but lifted a cloud as well.

I was glad to see that the trim tab modifications are clearly (as I had suggested) the culprit and that the government seems to actually be showing restraint and thought in their recommendations.

The improvements in documentation and testing of aircraft seem spot on and suggestions on course modifications seem reasonable.

So for me it seems like the future of air racing in Reno has passed a giant hurdle and we have some answers confirmed about this terrible tragedy.

As to bringing it all back, I hadn't really thought about the incident for quite a while and I was surprised at my reaction to seeing it again in the briefing. Even without the impact I was surprised that I had such a physical reaction. I was shaking after watching it.

It will be interesting to see if I have any reaction at the races later this year.

I just realized however how great it is after this briefing seeing that I can type the previous line "at the races later this year"!

Also, I had at least one smile when reading some of the supporting data, Ghost was 530 MPH at the time! I think Jimmy was ready to show us another Ace. What a Gold Race we would have had!

We passed a hurdle, now lets hope this year is the safest and FASTEST Reno EVER!

Spacegrrrl

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Another step back to normal

After briefly reading over the findings (I need to reread all of them) I have to agree with the recommendations for the most part. Yes, the fuel truck should perhaps be parked somewhere else, the G suits would be a good idea, but are they really feasible? Moving pylon 8 might be a good idea, but where?

And yes, hearing GG was doing 530 through the turn is pretty mind blowing. I remember people saying that Strega and Voodoo slowed down, but it might have been they were maintaining pace, and Jimmy put the spurs to it. All I can say is wow, what a race it could have been on Sunday. Perhaps there is some solid merit to the scoopless Mustang. 530 mph with really short wings through a turn is pretty impressive in my book. It makes you wonder what the speeds were for Strega and Voodoo at the time. Perhaps we will see another scoopless mustang in the future based on all that was learned with Stiletto and G.G. If nothing else, it should be pretty fast.

I can't wait for Sept.

Will

[MRussell]

Re: Another step back to normal

I did not see a conclusion citing trim tab failure as probable cause. Did I miss that somewhere?

[Big_Jim]

Re: Another step back to normal

I did not see a conclusion citing trim tab failure as probable cause. Did I miss that somewhere?

This was not the final report on the accident itself. That is where you would find a statement like that, and the investigation is not done yet.

This today was recommendations to things to look for or change.

However, it is interesting to note that even within the verbiage of the suggestions it points a finger at the trim tab issues--fixing one, electric motors, etc.--as things that were identified by the tech inspectors prior to racing last year, and as things that the Unlimited Class should set guidelines for in the future.

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

I did not see a conclusion citing trim tab failure as probable cause. Did I miss that somewhere?

Did you actually watch the video of the conference??

NTSB Briefing

This was not the final finding, but seeing as the only aircraft "defect" mentioned in the briefing was the failure of the trim system complete with multiple still photographs of the aircraft where they pointed specifically at the trim surfaces in various degrees of position that seemed consistent with failure, ending with departure of portions of one surface.

I think they were making a case the trim surface has their primary attention as to cause.

So if you haven't, watch the actual briefing and then please tell me what you thought they suggested as the problem with the Ghost that caused the incident.

Spacegrrrl

[Mluvara]

Re: Another step back to normal

After briefly reading over the findings (I need to reread all of them) I have to agree with the recommendations for the most part. Yes, the fuel truck should perhaps be parked somewhere else, the G suits would be a good idea, but are they really feasible? Moving pylon 8 might be a good idea, but where?

And yes, hearing GG was doing 530 through the turn is pretty mind blowing. I remember people saying that Strega and Voodoo slowed down, but it might have been they were maintaining pace, and Jimmy put the spurs to it. All I can say is wow, what a race it could have been on Sunday. Perhaps there is some solid merit to the scoopless Mustang. 530 mph with really short wings through a turn is pretty impressive in my book. It makes you wonder what the speeds were for Strega and Voodoo at the time. Perhaps we will see another scoopless mustang in the future based on all that was learned with Stiletto and G.G. If nothing else, it should be pretty fast.

I can't wait for Sept.

Will

Don't draw too much from that. One thing to consider is that this is ground speed and not indicated. Winds were pretty stiff during that race and Voodoo saw 530 mph ground speed on the course too.

Michael

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

Don't draw too much from that. One thing to consider is that this is ground speed and not indicated. Winds were pretty stiff during that race and Voodoo saw 530 mph ground speed on the course too.

Michael

The speed was from in plane telemetry.

Do you know what the source of the telemetry source was (this is meant to be a real question, not meant to challenge your post :-) )? I assumed it was based on the in aircraft instrumentation.

Anyone know the specifics of the telemetry in GG?

Spacegrrrl

[MRussell]

Re: Another step back to normal

Did you actually watch the video of the conference??
Spacegrrrl

Easy killer I watched it. But since you asked, I think in addition to the tab failure some things may have occurred in the aft fuselage during the upset and I'd be happy to wait for the probable cause statement. Curious to see if the tab failure is a contributing factor, a consequence, or a cause.

[Box A35]

Re: Another step back to normal

The speed was from in plane telemetry.

Do you know what the source of the telemetry source was? I assumed it was based on the in aircraft instrumentation.

Anyone know the specifics of the telemetry in GG?

Spacegrrrl

Um, the guy you are quoting is THE one, the brains, the designer behind the telemetry on GG.

I'd bet my last nickel he knows what he is talking about........ (2c)

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

Easy killer I watched it. But since you asked, I think in addition to the tab failure some things may have occurred in the aft fuselage during the upset and I'd be happy to wait for the probable cause statement. Curious to see if the tab failure is a contributing factor, a consequence, or a cause.

Haven't heard anyone suggest something in the aft fuselage as a cause and didn't see anything in the video that indicated there was suspicion of aft fuselage mysteries. I think they implied the tail wheel coming out was an indication of the G-forces as well as fuselage deformation seen in some pictures.

But sure, feel free to wait to hear it was the trim tab failure in the final report....

Spacegrrrl

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

Um, the guy you are quoting is THE one, the brains, the designer behind the telemetry on GG.

I'd bet my last nickel he knows what he is talking about........ (2c)

I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was saying he didn't know what he was talking about. I was asking a question. I really wondered what the airspeed telemetry source was!

It wasn't meant to discredit the person I quoted.

Spacegrrrl

[MRussell]

Re: Another step back to normal

Haven't heard anyone suggest something in the aft fuselage as a cause and didn't see anything in the video that indicated there was suspicion of aft fuselage mysteries. I think they implied the tail wheel coming out was an indication of the G-forces as well as fuselage deformation seen in some pictures.

But sure, feel free to wait to hear it was the trim tab failure in the final report....

Spacegrrrl

And the fuselage deformation shown in a photo taken earlier in the race?

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

And the fuselage deformation shown in a photo taken earlier in the race?

The MAJOR deformation was mentioned in the briefing was after the pull up, they even had one of the photo stills they used put back up for the folks in the room to see (although not on video)

There hasn't been a photo that I've heard anyone present that showed more than normal fuselage deformation during any GG flight. If there is one could someone share it or point me to it?

Spacegrrrl

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Another step back to normal

Had they installed a water tank/equipt. in the aft section for the boil-off system that maybe broke loose or?

[Bob]

Re: Another step back to normal

Quick question, if the deformation was so bad, why didnt the whole tail fail during the initial pull up when the g load was at its highest? Whats the most g's a top runner encounters during a race? And why would this load cause a big failure but a much higher load didnt? enquiring minds wanna know.