New Course......

[T. Adams]

Re: New Course......

Remember, Tiger passed Mike on the inside when he won for the last time before turning it over to Steve. Mike hugged the deadline all the way around. It's all up to RARA though, but that pass was allowed to stand.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: New Course......

If there's passing on the inside, it'll cost 'em...big time. Unless RARA changes the rules about overtaking.

Remember, Tiger passed Mike on the inside when he won for the last time before turning it over to Steve. Mike hugged the deadline all the way around. It's all up to RARA though, but that pass was allowed to stand.

They didn't change 'em, but the rules have never been totally against passing on the inside if done safely and under the right conditions:



Quoted from the racing rules under "RACING", as posted at Airrace.org:

"AN AIRCRAFT overtaking a slower aircraft shall not pass between that aircraft and a pylon and will pass on the outside unless the overtaken aircraft is extremely wide and can be kept in sight at all times by the overtaking pilot during the pass. "


Apparently the RARA officials felt Tiger never lost sight of the slower plane, and that his pass was done properly and within rule limitations.


.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: New Course......

It's a good rule and the interpretation for Tiger was totally correct in that instance. If you totally did not allow anyone to pass inside under any circumstances, it'd wind up being a "who can hold just inside the deadline best" kind of thing.. I don't think that would be much fun!

[Guest]

Re: New Course......

All true and recall the instance. Guess I should have expanded on my thought a bit more by including the references to the new deadlines and the effect that may have on passing.

Bottom line: it's a bit of new ground that I have no doubt these guys and gals will have little difficulty in plowing! Standing out there, day in and day out, trusting that each pilot has just the right touch in guiding that hurtling piece of machinery...wouldn't have it any other way no matter what the course may look like.

Good stuff, fellas.

[C_roundy]

Re: New Course......

They didn't change 'em, but the rules have never been totally against passing on the inside if done safely and under the right conditions:
Quoted from the racing rules under "RACING", as posted at Airrace.org:

"AN AIRCRAFT overtaking a slower aircraft shall not pass between that aircraft and a pylon and will pass on the outside unless the overtaken aircraft is extremely wide and can be kept in sight at all times by the overtaking pilot during the pass. "

Apparently the RARA officials felt Tiger never lost sight of the slower plane, and that his pass was done properly and within rule limitations.

I am more grateful, and proud of you for researching the issue well enough to point this out, than words can say AirDOGGe. Thank you Sir!

Had you not raised the point, at minimum, there would have been less time to address the point when someone else did, before it really matters that this stuff GETS worked out.

The issue of continued ability to make passes despite the narrower "show-line" inherent with the course adjustments is the most universal concern I have heard from pilots who have flown it.

After all, we are here to help. So lets continue helping to raise situational awareness the best we can.

AirDOGGe, the way you just did that is a shining example !

Chuck Roundy

[Guest]

Re: New Course......

Hey Roundy,
Good comments all the way around! Not that I'd ever take to quoting her, but, "It takes a Village!"

My point (which was poorly made BTW!) was that given what at least at this point seems a tighter course (in radius and deadlines) it may present fewer instances where a pass similar to that discussed above can be pulled off without violating the rules.

Believe me, as a group, we give every possible benefit of the doubt to the guys and gals pullin' the levers. Above the can, outside the can, outside the overtaken A/C, no forced cuts, etc. It all comes into play and discretion and judgment are front and center. No question.

Truly enjoy being part of this group and the knowledge and history that is displayed. We each hold our opinions and share them as we see fit. Won't be Air Racing if it wasn't so.

Thanks for letting us get our "Fix" Wayne! Great to see you @ PRS.

Cheers All,

[supercub]

Re: New Course......

Here's my 2 cents..........CAN"T WAIT

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: New Course......

Thanks for letting us get our "Fix" Wayne! Great to see you @ PRS.

Geez.... wish I could have spent more time with you! PRS is a blur... s h i t, every day is a freaking blur anymore!

I had a LOT more trouble than I expected going down this year... seeing "the spot".. really got to me. Last year, after it happened, we just hung around the media area until released.. (we had to stay there until we were told we could go) then we went to the hotel, didn't look at where it happened, I got... medicated, and stayed that way until our reservation ran out... then drove home. I have STIL to this day not truly accepted what happened... I saw it (from outer 4) but it was a long way away, from there, we could only see Jimmy going down, impact, thankfully, blocked by distance and terrain.... it still sticks in my brain like it never happened..

Denial? Yes... for sure.. I had a hard time, every day during PRS getting my arse out of bed and making my way out there..

Both my parents are gone now, but I did not see either of them pass, so it's like it never happened.. this is a lot like that for me.. don't know if I'll ever really get over this one.

[Tim Jones]

Re: New Course......

Stopped by and saw the spot a few weeks back.
Still very humbling.
A little anxiety about going back. But I'm counting the days.
There's no experience like it.

TJ

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: New Course......

Wayne,Kenny Price & I were in the pits & Kenny had him on the watch at 499mph & we knew something was amiss by his bobble on the last pylon prior to coming down in front of the grandstands. It was all a blur as we knew the outcome after the pullup, We will never forget it.

[Leo]

Re: New Course......

We sat right behind it in the stands during PRS and I saw several people take their pictures in front of it, like it is a tourist attraction. Sigh...
I thankfully had no reaction to being there again. That was one bad day.

I am now looking forward to September. Here we go again!

[Desertdawg]

Re: New Course......

I saw the impact spot last year and didn't take any pictures, really hope they make it disappear by September. The news media with their constant replay video loops of the impact have caused it to be permanently embedded in my brain.

Luckily I have happier memories of Jimmy and the Ghost that will eventually overpower the media's effort.

[Bob]

Re: New Course......

Had a thought (yes it hurt).

Will CzeckMate and Steadfast be able to fly with the bigger SeaFuries, Corsairs, Mustangs and the Tigercats without crossing the show lines? I seem to remember both of these planes needing a higher line than the othes.

Also CzeckMates new wing, will it need to be certified at race speeds before it can race?

Cant wait for sept

[gp70442]

Re: New Course......

Also CzeckMates new wing, will it need to be certified at race speeds before it can race?

That's a good question that I am curious about as well. Just what ARE the new procedures on that. Assume CM is capable of laps 10-20 mph faster than ever before, what then? Will the team have to prove the new wing at race speed during qualifying, before being allowed to race, or what?

A new wing can be considered a major mod I would think. Where do they draw the line on "mods"?

GP

[knot4u]

Re: New Course......

That's a good question that I am curious about as well. Just what ARE the new procedures on that. Assume CM is capable of laps 10-20 mph faster than ever before, what then? Will the team have to prove the new wing at race speed during qualifying, before being allowed to race, or what?

A new wing can be considered a major mod I would think. Where do they draw the line on "mods"?

GP

I believe it's called the Unlimited class for a reason.