NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

...during Hot August Nights, one reporter said, and I quote, "Chevy Mustang."

There are lot of highly modified cars at Hot August Nights. It could have been a Ford Mustang powered with Chevrolet motor and transmission, and when the reporter asked him what it was, he could have told them it was a "Chevy Mustang" so it could have been accurate reporting.

[T. Adams]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

There are lot of highly modified cars at Hot August Nights. It could have been a Ford Mustang powered with Chevrolet motor and transmission, and when the reporter asked him what it was, he could have told them it was a "Chevy Mustang" so it could have been accurate reporting.

You give the talking heads, WAY to much credit on that one.

[N22252]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

In regards to the article, its News4. They are by far the worst Reno news network. They are constantly mis-spoken and their facts are ways jumbled. They employ the worst reporters in town. Just a couple of weeks ago, during Hot August Nights, one reporter said, and I quote, "Chevy Mustang."

At least they haven't said "Elderly Stunt Pilot" lately... I honestly don't recall if it was a Reno-based news outlet that said it at the time, but it was uncalled for.

[Fence Sence]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

There are lot of highly modified cars at Hot August Nights. It could have been a Ford Mustang powered with Chevrolet motor and transmission, and when the reporter asked him what it was, he could have told them it was a "Chevy Mustang" so it could have been accurate reporting.

No. There was a company giving rides in new Mustangs and Camaros around a autocross type course that they (News4) were reporting on. They were running in the background and the reporter actually pointed to them and said, "...Chevy Mustangs and Corvettes."

A) Chevy Mustang. No such thing.

B) Corvettes. It would have been more accurate to say Ford Camaro.

News4 is just a joke. Everyday they say or do something completely stupid. On this occasion it was sending some nitwit reporter down to an event in which they have zero knowledge about and who can't even read/create accurate notes. I'm telling you, everygoddamnday. My wife likes NBC Nightly News w/ BW (as do I) so we end up on News4 for local news. If you're looking for decent local news in Reno, go channel 2.

[gokrt driver]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

[QUOTE=Fence Sence;103977]

A) Chevy Mustang. No such thing.

B) Corvettes. It would have been more accurate to say Ford Camaro.

[QUOTE]
At least they didnt call them Chevettes

[AirDOGGe]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

"Dang Marta! Did you see that on Tee-Vee? I'm gonna git me one of those new Ford Chevy's...!"

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

NTSB to have meeting Mon.8/27/12 @ 9:30AM EST to determine probable cause on Jimmys accident. Notice posted on NTSB web site.

[TwoZeroWest]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Just curious but, why are NTSB reports not permissible in civil suits?

First, a small disclaimer: A couple of years ago I had the good fortune to attend the NTSB's accident investigation course. They cover a lot but the very first thing they cover are the legalities associated with their existence.

The simple answer is that it is prohibited by federal regulation.

The relevant regulation is 49 CFR §835.3, which states:

(a) Section 701(e) of the FA Act and section 304(c) of the Safety Act preclude the use or admission into evidence of Board accident reports in any suit or action for damages arising from accidents. These sections reflect Congress' “strong * * * desire to keep the Board free of the entanglement of such suits.” Rep. No. 93-1192, 93d Cong., 2d Sess., 44 (1974), and serve to ensure that the Board does not exert an undue influence on litigation. The purposes of these sections would be defeated if expert opinion testimony of Board employees, which may be reflected in the views of the Board expressed in its reports, were admitted in evidence or used in litigation arising out of an accident. The Board relies heavily upon its investigators' opinions in its deliberations. Furthermore, the use of Board employees as experts to give opinion testimony would impose a significant administrative burden on the Board's investigative staff. Litigants must obtain their expert witnesses from other sources.

(b) For the reasons stated in paragraph (a) of this section and § 835.1, Board employees may only testify as to the factual information they obtained during the course of an investigation, including factual evaluations embodied in their factual accident reports. However, they shall decline to testify regarding matters beyond the scope of their investigation, and they shall not give any expert or opinion testimony.

(c) Board employees may testify about the firsthand information they obtained during an investigation that is not reasonably available elsewhere, including observations recorded in their own factual accident reports. Consistent with the principles cited in § 835.1 and this section, current Board employees are not authorized to testify regarding other employee's reports, or other types of Board documents, including but not limited to safety recommendations, safety studies, safety proposals, safety accomplishments, reports labeled studies, and analysis reports, as they contain staff analysis and/or Board conclusions.

(d) Briefs of accidents may be released in conjunction with factual accident reports. Nevertheless, they are not part of those reports and are not to be admitted in evidence or used in a deposition approved under this part.

(e) Not all material in a factual accident report may be the subject of testimony. The purpose of the factual accident report, in great part, is to inform the public at large, and as a result the factual accident report may contain information and conclusions for which testimony is prohibited by this part.

(f) No employee may testify in any matter absent advance approval by the General Counsel as provided in this part.

(All emphasis is mine)

Hope that clarifies the matter a bit.

TZW

[TwoZeroWest]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Sorry. Ntsb won't, but the courts will, based on their findings.

Not exactly. The courts serve no function other than that of forum for the fair and unbiased airing and adjudication of grievances. Since the content of NTSB reports cannot be used as evidence in civil suits, in the absence of any other evidence, the court would most likely find a suit based entirely on such contents to be without merit.

Now, there's nothing that prohibits the production of identical evidence from alternative sources. Suppose that the report determined that a pilot deliberately crashed an airplane, and that it used a video containing direct evidence of such to support its finding of probable cause. The Board's determination could not be used as evidence.

But suppose further that a resourceful attorney manages to buy a copy of the video that the NTSB used to support its findings from its owner - the copyright holder. That video, and perhaps a little expert testimony from a non-NTSB expert explaining what it shows CAN be used as evidence.

The bottom line is that it is possible to duplicate much of the evidence found in an NTSB report using private investigative avenues - and that's exactly what happens in civil suits related to any accident that the NTSB investigates. Anything that tends to support claims made by plaintiffs is right there in the report - but it must be accessed through means other than the investigative authority of the Board.

[Propellerhead]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Bruce,

You forgot to add: "Now here endeth the lesson."

But, seriously - as usual - all very good stuff.

[TwoZeroWest]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Bruce,

You forgot to add: "Now here endeth the lesson."

But, seriously - as usual - all very good stuff.

Ha! (I think)

[Leo]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Thanks twozero.
On a somewhat related topic:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20120823/EVENTS05/308230061/-77-million-fund-created-Reno-air-race-crash-victims?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News&nclick_check=1

Sorry, I can't seem to link without subscribing!

[Sky Critter]

Re: NTSB says Unlimited Division inspectors found trim tab

Thanks TZW! That was way more than I expected. I had always assumed that something that has been made part of the public record could be used in court and then referenced by a third party "expert witness". Glad to see the NTSB doesn't want to get sucked into such matters.