Phantom

[Bill@Interstell]

Re: Phantom

Will there ever be any competition for this beast (Phantom)?

So what happened to the Sorceress and Sundancer bipes? They split the class in two at some point to give the stock planes a fighting chance. They both raced for a while. Then they alternated years. Then the faster planes disappeared, except for this one. What gives? There has to be a story here.

Brilliant shot Neal.

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

I think the Lipps is both expensive and needs lots of power to work well. As I remember Charlie felt that it had good top end speed, but accelerated relatively poorly on takeoff compared to the Steve Hill props. With Phantom initial acceleration might be less important with its 40-50 mph top speed advantage as compared to maybe a 5-10 mph difference at most among the top IF1 contenders in Charlie's F-1 time. A really big top speed advantage can make up for a lot of deficiency at takeoff, as Jon Sharp proved many times with Nemesis.

I have not seen a Bipe race from the stands or pits for a long time -- has anybody here noticed where in the pack Aberley usually is after the takeoff and start?

This really is a fascinating and radically innovative Racer...

Neal

In years past, Tom would usually fall back to third or so on the start, then pass them by the time they were rolling into pylon 4. This year he seemed to accelerate much better and was first to pylon one (except in the final when he started last due to the low flight DQ). I asked him if they had a different prop this year and he said no so I don't know the difference was.

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

So what happened to the Sorceress and Sundancer bipes? They split the class in two at some point to give the stock planes a fighting chance. They both raced for a while. Then they alternated years. Then the faster planes disappeared, except for this one. What gives? There has to be a story here.

Brilliant shot Neal.

When the newest set of rules was written, it excluded the true racing bipes. They do not meet the new minimum wing area rule, or the rule requiring a cabane structure. The original Knight Twister design no longer fits the rules either which I think is a shame. Don Fairbanks was at Reno this year. It was cool meeting him in person.

[wingman]

Re: Phantom

Thank you Bill, and a good question -- one which I've certainly never gotten a straight answer on. The Biplanes have long been a somewhat forgotten Racing class, so there is not a lot of documentation or public discussion on the history of the class or why they do what they do.

When I've asked casually about why those Racing Bipes were essentially outlawed, but the Aberle and Lo airplanes are legal now I mostly have gotten hemming and hawing. Too bad Jeff no longer posts on these forums.

Maybe Race 5 or Apteryx or someone can shed some light on these matters...

[wingman]

Re: Phantom

I see Race5 addressed the question before I finished my post. (I type slowly as well as poorly!). Thanks! That helps explain some things...

So what is the current wing area rule?

Neal

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

I see Race5 addressed the question before I finished my post. (I type slowly as well as poorly!). Thanks! That helps explain some things...

So what is the current wing area rule?

Neal

The most current rules can be found here: http://www.biplaneracing.com/article....html?id=00011

[Leo]

Re: Phantom

As I remember, Dan mortensen added cabane struts to his Amsoil racer to meet the rules. They were essentially springy and hinged at the ends to allow wing flex (the design was cantilevered) and served no purpose but to be there per the rules.
The racing biplane class was kind like the Super Gold in my opinion. It would be nice to see some competition for first.
The same is happening in F-1 with Endeavour pretty much wiping the field lately.

[Bob]

Re: Phantom

Sept Fate didnt have the race motor in, they ran out of time. Wait for next year.

[wingman]

Re: Phantom

Indeed! Next year should be interesting in IF-1...

[Leo]

Re: Phantom

I have high hopes for SF next year!

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

As I remember, Dan mortensen added cabane struts to his Amsoil racer to meet the rules. They were essentially springy and hinged at the ends to allow wing flex (the design was cantilevered) and served no purpose but to be there per the rules.
The racing biplane class was kind like the Super Gold in my opinion. It would be nice to see some competition for first.
The same is happening in F-1 with Endeavour pretty much wiping the field lately.

Not to split hairs, but those were interplane struts he added to the Amsoil racer. A cabane is the set of tubing or strut that attaches the center of the top wing to the top of the fuselage. The amsoil racer did not have a cabane structure of any kind.

[1:1 Scale]

Re: Phantom

I'm surprised we've not seen any attempt by anyone to emulate that wicked prop he uses... Personally, I can't remember ever seeing anything like it and, obviously, it seems to do its job very well...

I wonder if anyone inherited Paul's formulas and methods for designing the props he did before/after his passing. He was frequently on the RV forums and was always a wealth of knowledge and willing to share at least some of his ideas.

I may emulate the cooling system he had on his Lancair on my RV- a lot more work than the standard baffles, but it makes a lot of sense. RIP Paul

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

Sept Fate didnt have the race motor in, they ran out of time. Wait for next year.

I think Vito is going to get up there in the mix as well at some point. For a Cassutt based airplane, he is hauling the mail. Mariah proved that Endeavor can be beaten by a tube and fabric design.

[Bob]

Re: Phantom

I think Vito is going to get up there in the mix as well at some point. For a Cassutt based airplane, he is hauling the mail. Mariah proved that Endeavor can be beaten by a tube and fabric design.

Yeah your right, Vito is very fast. Its going to be a great IF-1 race next year.

[Race5]

Re: Phantom

I wonder if anyone inherited Paul's formulas and methods for designing the props he did before/after his passing. He was frequently on the RV forums and was always a wealth of knowledge and willing to share at least some of his ideas.

I may emulate the cooling system he had on his Lancair on my RV- a lot more work than the standard baffles, but it makes a lot of sense. RIP Paul

I believe his son is carrying on with the prop work.