PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

[Thom Richard]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

That's a loaded question. The problem is that the next big improvement is an engine overhaul. There is no cheap way of going about this.

We have lots if little cheaper things we can do and will, but the engine is the issue. It's an old leaky boat motor. Lots of hours, many years of flogging. It's just tired and has some old thinking and technology in it that needs to be improved. It's a big deal to our low budget team and we hope to gain the necessary support from our sponsors to pull this off.

We also have an ongoing list of safety improvements to make as we learn more and discover them. They took precedence this spring over speed mods, which is why the prop was the only improvement we had time for. They will again be priority, but I think we'll have more time to dedicate to please the speed gods this winter.

[Unlimited Fan]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Thom, it's just fantastic how you gentlemen have improved PM !!! I've always liked it and I think it's great to see it edging closer to being optimized. Congratulations on your efforts!!

I'm wondering about the very distinctive 'howl' that your Griffon has as it goes past. I'm assuming it is the sound of the contra-prop gears. No other Unlimited has that sound and it's just so cool !!! I remember hearing some audio from Reno years ago and I thought I could hear a similar sound assuming it was MA-II but it's been a long time.

Keep up the great work and thanks for the candidness about your race program.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Thom,

Thank-you much for joining in on this conversation. 'Precious Metal" appeared super, and in it's very best form to-date. Thumbs up to you, and all the crew.

As pretty as she looked, and as many cameras were clicking, it hopefully will lend to some more sponsorship toward that race-Griffon (fingers crossed!) for '13.

Am curious, in regards to aerodynamic efficiency, and cooling, if similar designs, such as was visited on the Rogers/Levitz hybrid, this being the NACA belly-scoop, might be tested at some point?

Joseph

[Big_Jim]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Am curious, in regards to aerodynamic efficiency, and cooling, if similar designs, such as was visited on the Rogers/Levitz hybrid, this being the NACA belly-scoop, might be tested at some point?

I will toss in just an educated comment on this. The only reason that they were able to put that extended NACA intake on the radiator intake is because it had the Lear Jet wing on it. The Lear wing was far enough forward, and the location of the landing gear wells with that wing in relation to the radiator was all far enough forward that the extended NACA scoop did not interfere with the landing gear.

On a stock Mustang such a modification would not be possible because of the fore/aft location of the gear wells and clamshell doors.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Thom,

Thank-you much for joining in on this conversation. 'Precious Metal" appeared super, and in it's very best form to-date. Thumbs up to you, and all the crew.

As pretty as she looked, and as many cameras were clicking, it hopefully will lend to some more sponsorship toward that race-Griffon (fingers crossed!) for '13.

Am curious, in regards to aerodynamic efficiency, and cooling, if similar designs, such as was visited on the Rogers/Levitz hybrid, this being the NACA belly-scoop, might be tested at some point?

Joseph

It will more than likely have Mike Meek's (Mr.E) scoop from Ridge Runner III. It's damn sexy and a proven design. Many would argue that a NACA scoop is not really that great for use as a belly scoop. Or a carb inlet for that matter. NACA's a very sensitive about angle that they need to be at. As Thom said the big thing is get rid of the tired ass engine, and I think any other mods will be one's that other people like Kerch, Meek, and Dan Martin have proven through their various programs. Same airplane... More cowbell!

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

"Unlimited Fan" The sound you heard from long ago may have been from the "Red Baron" as it also had the "MixMaster" props?

[Big_Jim]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Many would argue that a NACA scoop is not really that great for use as a belly scoop. Or a carb inlet for that matter. NACA's a very sensitive about angle that they need to be at.

In 1999 when they had the NACA intake on MAII, they were having all sorts of problems with cooling. On Wednesday night of race week, they took the radiator out and 'flushed' it. It was the same radiator that had been used on Georgia Mae, and had come in the package with the original modified scoop they used on MAII. The thing was just completely clogged with junk and crap.

Saturday morning, the day he was killed, I was standing next to Gary and Skip Holm after the pilot's briefing and Gary told Skip "Now that we have that radiator fixed, that damn scoop works too well. It is so efficient it's keeping the engine TOO cool."

Now, that was only based on the Thursday and Friday heat races, plus a Friday morning dawn patrol, but just with those three 'tests', he felt that the scoop was really working well.

Who knows......

[Unlimited Fan]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

"Unlimited Fan" The sound you heard from long ago may have been from the "Red Baron" as it also had the "MixMaster" props?

Pretty sure it was MA-II as it was same-day online audio-only coverage from around 1996 -1998. I at least didn't have interweb access in 1977 - 1979 ......

[Tigercat24]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

It will more than likely have Mike Meek's (Mr.E) scoop from Ridge Runner III. It's damn sexy and a proven design. Many would argue that a NACA scoop is not really that great for use as a belly scoop. Or a carb inlet for that matter. NACA's a very sensitive about angle that they need to be at. As Thom said the big thing is get rid of the tired ass engine, and I think any other mods will be one's that other people like Kerch, Meek, and Dan Martin have proven through their various programs. Same airplane... More cowbell!

Is this the scoop that RRIII used in 2009? With the laminar flow splitter boundary layer deleted like on Dago Red and Strega? If so, I will offer a golf clap, because as far as a scoop goes, that's one of the cleanest looking I've seen...and Dago's looked just like it.

[Smee Again]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

Is this the scoop that RRIII used in 2009? With the laminar flow splitter boundary layer deleted like on Dago Red and Strega? If so, I will offer a golf clap, because as far as a scoop goes, that's one of the cleanest looking I've seen...and Dago's looked just like it.

That would be the one. Now it's just a matter of ditching that oil cooler and a bit more plumbing.

SA

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

That would be the one. Now it's just a matter of ditching that oil cooler and a bit more plumbing.

SA

Not the same one. We are using the "extension" that still used the oil cooler. H-model heat exchanger will not work on the Griffon. 2004-5 scoop I believe.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

This one!

[Thom Richard]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

I don't know what the "howl" originates from. All I've heard so far are a few recordings of the sound, not the real thing, of course. I'm guessing the contra props would create something different that a stock Mustang. I understand the thing is softer and smoother sounding than before.

My favorite sound in Reno was always the Tigercat, but after listening to PM, it may have lost the top spot... What do you guys think?

There's a possibility there may be some howling coming from the pilot...

[Tigercat24]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

This one!

Ahhhh, gotcha. Kind of looks like the one y'all tried before this year...what exactly was wrong with that one, by the way?

[Tigercat24]

Re: PM 38 Why the difference in prop length

This one!

Here's RRIII in 2005...looks like the one.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51...843/55666267/1