Ejection Seats?

[ShaneDog]

I'm writing a research paper on ejection seats and I need some input from the public. I have found this a very unforgiving topic and have little to none background on this subject. I need to know if you think ejection seats should be mandatory (paticularly for air racing).

If you would please just tell me your viewpoint on this subject so I can kind of get an idea where the public stands on this issue. If you could also include some reasons and/or some evidence/facts/proof of why you believe (ejection seats should or should not be mandatory in Air Racing).

Thanks!!!

[Race 29]

Ejection seat would obviously increase the safety of any airplane. But as far as manditory for air racing, there's two things why it wouldn't work. First, ejection seats are rather bulky and would have to be installed in aircraft that were never designed to accomodate them. Also it would be cost prohibitave. If you lookat the post's about American Spirit, they quote a price of 1.5 million dollars each. That's as much as many of the racers out there cost as a whole. If it was manditory to have them, it would kill the sport.

Race 29

[speeddemon]

NEVER!

Ejection seats would be one of the worst possible things you could do in a race plane...not just for the cost, not just for the weight penalty.

Seats work when used in the right environment, and the new zero-zero stuff is incredible when within the performance envelope. But outside of those parameters, they are dangerous...both for the pilot AND people/things on the ground.

Let's say that Joe Homebuilt pilot loses control of his airplane coming around pylon 8 at 400 mph. In a fit of desparation, he pulls the handle and it fires him out of the stricken plane....which is now careening along pilotless toward a pit full of aircraft, aviation fuel, and a ton of people. Not a pretty sight. How about into the grandstands? It's happened before at airshows in Europe. Pilots walk away...while hundreds die from the crash in the audience.

This is one reason the FAA doesn't allow energy maneuvers towards the crowd in the first place. Yeah, the Thunderbird pilot ejected a couple weeks ago...but one, he was a trained military pilot, following proceedure. Two, he waited until the very last possible minute. And three, he was travelling down the flightline when he let go of the aircraft.

If I recall, the FAA makes all former military jets (i.e the L-39's, MiG's, T-33's, and F-86's) deactivate their seats for the same reason. If they had been allowed to be used, some old friends might still be allowed....like Frank S. and Big Z.

But the bottom line is that they don't want a pilot punching out and just letting the plane go where it may. Put that mentality in a racing environment, and you can figure out why you'll never see it on a race course. The pilots KNOW what the dangers are when they climb in the plane...and they are willing to accept that risk...without a hot seat.

Speeddemon

[Randy Haskin]

Re: NEVER!

Originally posted by speeddemon

If I recall, the FAA makes all former military jets (i.e the L-39's, MiG's, T-33's, and F-86's) deactivate their seats for the same reason.

I believe that it's legal to have active seats, so long as the owner follows the proper inspection schedule for the pyrotechnics in the seat.

I know that L-39s can do it, but their pyro has to be shipped to the factory in Czechoslovakia every 6 months for the inspection.

So, most owners choose to not spend the time and $$$ for these inspections and instead go for the safed seat.

There is also the option of a pilot extraction system -- it requires much less aircraft modification for the seat, is significantly less expensive, and is actually safer in some low altitude flight situations.

[Steve H]

I don't think an ejection seat could have saved Bobby rose or Gary Levitz

Steve Hixson

[Derrek]

e seats

This subject came up a few times, a few years back. I don't know if Wayne still has all that stuff somewhere.

Let's say that Joe Homebuilt pilot loses control of his airplane coming around pylon 8 at 400 mph. In a fit of desparation, he pulls the handle and it fires him out of the stricken plane....which is now careening along pilotless toward a pit full of aircraft, aviation fuel, and a ton of people. Not a pretty sight. How about into the grandstands? It's happened before at airshows in Europe. Pilots walk away...while hundreds die from the crash in the audience

You are right, an e-seat isn't always going to work in every situation. They are used by qualified pilots when all other options are exhausted. No one wouldn't have saved Tommy Rose or Gary Levitz. Would Kevin Eldridge have liked to have had one when it was time to exit the super Corsair, How about Steve Hinton when the Red Baron Became a gliding brick headed for that rockpile? When Joe Homebuilt pilot loses control as he comes around #8 does it really matter whether he is in the cockpit or not since he is out of control? Those crashes you speak of in Europe, would it mattered had they been in the plane as it plowed into the ground?

I found the link http://www.aafo.com/racing/tech/seats/part2.htm
Eric goes over all this much more thoroughly than I can.

[Kilo Hotel]

Extraction system

I found Eric Ahlstrom's article well-argued and convincing. When was it written? Have any Reno racers incorporated the extraction system he describes?

[ramp mouse]

ejection seats

I don't know about others but i helped reassemble a mig21um that had and still has active seats its step #1 to safe them after any flight