Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

[Big_Jim]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Esquadrilha da Fumaca did put on one heck of a show at Abbotsford '86. I think pretty much every military demonstration team was there that year (The Red Arrows weren't there, but the French and Italian teams were,) Those guys however put on the best show. The 4 things I remember from that year, E.d.F put on the best show, the SR-71 was there (can't remember which one though) I got blown on my butt by the Concord on takeoff, and our Cessna 175 with a very bent prop ended up parked between a Sea Fury and a Mustang, because Ground control directed my dad into an unmarked ditch so the Antonov AN124 (or was it the 224?) could land behind us.

I'll say Abbotsford '86 was the best airshow I've ever been to.

Will

The Brazilians, French, Canadian, Italian, and the Blue Angels were there that year. I recall a photo flight with one of each team's aircraft in formation. I don't know what my brother is smoking, but c'mon Randy....the Frecci Tricolori stole the show. 'Is not all...."

And that was Getchell's Sea Fury. I am not positive, but I think I have a picture of Getch making a pass down the runway with the Concorde.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

And in doing so completely missed the point of my post. But whatever.

Been staying out of this but, in my judgment, as someone who has been a moderator on this site for over a decade, and on the AOL network previous to the birth of AAFO.. this sort of response can cause escalation.. Look at it this way, your post with the "research" comment within, was challenging... then the response to you challenged you, your response, which I quoted at the top of this message, lacks an explanation of what your point was.. so it's an open challenge and I'll bet, you're gonna get a less than nice response....

We're all on the same team here, not only on this board, but in the entire country. I think one of the reasons all of us are so fascinated with the WWII hardware and the history of the era, is because it was a time when everyone pulled in the same direction. The biggest problem in this country now, IMHO, is that we are fractionalized... we have a divided and divisive congress which fights the next election from the day of the last one.

Anyway, remember what they say about religion and politics.. and elbows, arseholes and opinions..

[Big_Jim]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Been staying out of this but, in my judgment, as someone who has been a moderator on this site for over a decade, and on the AOL network previous to the birth of AAFO.. this sort of response can cause escalation.. Look at it this way, your post with the "research" comment within, was challenging... then the response to you challenged you, your response, which I quoted at the top of this message, lacks an explanation of what your point was.. so it's an open challenge and I'll bet, you're gonna get a less than nice response....

We're all on the same team here, not only on this board, but in the entire country. I think one of the reasons all of us are so fascinated with the WWII hardware and the history of the era, is because it was a time when everyone pulled in the same direction. The biggest problem in this country now, IMHO, is that we are fractionalized... we have a divided and divisive congress which fights the next election from the day of the last one.

Anyway, remember what they say about religion and politics.. and elbows, arseholes and opinions..

Some of the original responses included blaming the grounding of various things--including the flight demonstration teams--to the current adminstration in the White House. I don't care one way or another who is in the White House or who's fault it is. All I did was provide an example that the flight demonstration teams have been grounded for political/budget reasons before..that it wasn't just a symptom of the current adminstration like some people would like to place the blame on. That was the point. Instead this Navy pilot got lectured on the history of Top Gun among other things and told that I picked the wrong example....by someone who my post wasn't even directed at.

People some of the other Warbird sites have been permanently banned because they can and do turn every thread into a political pulpit. If that's what you want here, it's your site. And if you want me to go away, I'll go away. But at least hoist another beer my direction before you throw me out the door.

[frankg]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Esquadrilha da Fumaca did put on one heck of a show at Abbotsford '86. I think pretty much every military demonstration team was there that year (The Red Arrows weren't there, but the French and Italian teams were,) Those guys however put on the best show. The 4 things I remember from that year, E.d.F put on the best show, the SR-71 was there (can't remember which one though) I got blown on my butt by the Concord on takeoff, and our Cessna 175 with a very bent prop ended up parked between a Sea Fury and a Mustang, because Ground control directed my dad into an unmarked ditch so the Antonov AN124 (or was it the 224?) could land behind us.

I'll say Abbotsford '86 was the best airshow I've ever been to.

Will

I still remember the Italians coming over with the biggest video camera I had ever seen to get a tour of the SR-71. 50+ years of airshows and Abbotsford '86 was one of the best.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

People some of the other Warbird sites have been permanently banned because they can and do turn every thread into a political pulpit. If that's what you want here, it's your site. And if you want me to go away, I'll go away. But at least hoist another beer my direction before you throw me out the door.

Nobody's throwing anyone out the door!!

I'd surely not want to see the same political situation develop here, but this thread title does totally invite opinions on why/what that are inevitably going to go in a political direction.. (why I stayed out of it and let it roll) And I certainly didn't mean to put you on the spot.. Just poked in my opinion... (yaknow.. the elbows and arsehole thing)

Anyway, everyone just remember to pretend you're facing the person you're fingertalking to, and you had too much Novocaine and can't move your facial mucles... That really is the problem with fingertalking...

And, as for beer... don't you owe me one???

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

The Brazilians, French, Canadian, Italian, and the Blue Angels were there that year. I recall a photo flight with one of each team's aircraft in formation. I don't know what my brother is smoking, but c'mon Randy....the Frecci Tricolori stole the show. 'Is not all...."

Notice I said that the Brazilians were more interesting than the US jet teams...although I realize now that I was including the Snowbirds in that with the Blues. I guess the Canadians would be offended that I was thinking of them as a US team!

The Italians and French were the absolute standouts for me at that show. The Italians doing their tail slide in the MB-339 is still etched in my mind to this day. Totally outshined all the other teams in my eyes.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

From LiveAirShowTV

We just got a message from ICAS regarding the looming sequestration. If you haven't read any of these postings before, READ THIS ONE. If your favorite air show is scheduled AFTER April 1st, there will be NO MILITARY participation in those shows!!!

As reported in the last issue of Fast Facts, contingency planning by the U.S. Navy, Air Force, Army and Marine Corps calls for a complete end to all non-essential flying – including air show performances – if sequestration cuts are implemented. ICAS has learned that, if the March 1 deadline is not averted, the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds and single-ship tactical demonstration teams will continue to prepare for the 2013 air show season through March 31. If the situation has not been corrected by then, all preparation will cease and the teams will stop flying on April 1. In addition to an abrupt end to air show performances, the military will also stop supporting air shows with static display aircraft. Although specific details about air shows and open houses held on military bases have not been shared, it is likely that these events will also be cancelled.

Let your representatives know how you feel!!!!



Sounds Like we better schedule Eddie Andreini, and some other warbird demos - WBK

[Guest]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Proof once again that opinions as like @$$holes...everybody is...er...uh...got one.

Take the politics elsewhere...start a blog...whatever.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Hummn... Let's see, we have an all volunteer military, that spends MILLIONS on TV and radio time, along with having demonstration teams and static displays of whichever branch's service is "recruiting" at various functions around the country... Are they forgetting why they have the demos? It's not to make any given airshow successful, it's to inspire young people for careers in the military.. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot and, god forbid, hastening the day when the Chinese or some other country become the demo teams!

Is the same "happy horse$hit" that goes on in union negotiations? Or is our government finally completely out of its mind?

[Airpirate]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

As a former Naval Aviator, with a brother who is a LtCol in the Air Force let me say that if you people think that 'who is in the white house' is the reason for any threats of the flight demonstration teams being on the chopping block, I will once again say that you guys need to take the politics off-site. I flew both under Republican and Democratic White Houses, and the losing party will always complain that the winning party is responsible for the gloom and doom.

As far back as when I was a kid in the early '70's I can remember politicians on both sides of the house using both flight demonstration teams as political pawns. This is not something new. It happens every few years or so, and yet they still go on. There is always some retired Admiral or General who thinks the money is better spend somewhere else, or some Senator who has an agenda of his own. They always make lots of threats and posturing, and yet in the end it always ends up pulling through.

Did you guys bother to do your research and see that in 1973 BOTH teams were grounded? A lot of it was due to the oil crisis...but money is money, right? The Thunderbirds only flew SIX shows that year. The Blues flew more, but after an accident at Lakehurst the DoD grounded them for the remainder of the season too. AND A REPUBLICAN WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. A two-term Republican who resigned in lieu of impeachment. It works both ways, fellas. But yet they were flying again the following year.

If you guys (and yes, there are a couple of you that I am once again specifically targeting) want to rag on the adminstration, I reccommend going here:

http://americanswhohateobama.com/

http://ihateobama.com/

Keep this site to just the aviation stuff, please.

I HATE that guy, thanks for the links!

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Yes. Thanks for the links,I'll send them to my friends.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

You guys should see the list released by AF leadership a couple days ago about what is going to be shut down as of 1 April if sequestration happens. More severe than the early 90s drawdown.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Proof once again that opinions as like @$$holes...everybody is...er...uh...got one.

Take the politics elsewhere...start a blog...whatever.

Beyond the politics some of use make a living in the airshow industry. If airshows get cancelled and the performers we work for loose that gig it means less work for us in general. The L-39 I work on is going to be doing a total of two shows this year if all the military shows go away. Two shows doesn't even pay for insurance. The bad politics are killing the industry that I count on for a pay check.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Just rermember who called for these cuts???????????

[Guest]

Re: Budget cuts may eliminate Thunderbirds and Operation Red Flag

Bill,
Totally agree and understand. As a member of ICAS myself I am painfully aware of the impact. I'm ramping up my Air Boss business this season and am obviously more than a bit concerned about the situation. Though powerless to do much, I've written my rep and senators (though being from WA state I suspect that may fall on deaf ears).

Bob,
If you mean the agreement between Congress and the White House, yes...I remember who called for the cuts. No supporter of the current Administration am I however; it does take two to tango.

There's a reason it's called "Congress"...it's the opposite of Progress.