A380

[Peashooter]

The A380 rolls out next week. Imagine "freedom fries" for 550 per flight!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=509&u=/ap/20050116/ap_on_bi_ge/airbus_a380_s_debut_7&printer=1

[deepsky]

Re: A380

anyone know if Boeing will produce the 747-400ER, or 747-400X to compete with the A380.

great A380 pics.http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...nct_entry=true

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: A380

I'll agree that the A380 is a technical marvel - but beyond that it's pretty easy to see where this is going. Check-in, security, boarding, immigration, baggage-reclaim, and customs are all systems which are grossly overloaded even with the size of aircraft we fly today. To start squeezing a quart into a pint sized pot at this stage, and a cracked pot at that, is simply going to increase the misery for every traveller whether they fly on an A380 or not. And who is going to pay for the privalage of having an A380 pull up to your gate? Heathrow is spending over $842 million just to get that airport ready for the behemoth jumbo jet... and I'm sure that similar airports that are going to provide landing accomadations for the plane will be spending similar ammounts. Great for the companies making huge profits from the construction - very bad for the flying public that will have to pick up the tab.

But I degress - this aircraft hasn't even flown yet. But they are planning on starting service in 2006 in selected markets. Seems like once again manufacturers are putting the cart before the horse... or even more dangerous... placing such huge pressures on the aircraft/development team that a full shake-down of all systems could very well get placed on the back burner in the interest of expediency. What happened to the good old days when safty came first, and manufacturing/production schedules came second? Oh well - we'll certainly find out about problems due to "the rush to production" eventually won't we.

Besides all that, airlines are already having great difficulty in filling the aircraft they already have... it makes no economic sense to fly a 550 passenger with a passenger load of 250 to 300. Even on routes with high passenger loads (especially to Asia), the airlines can't fill the seats. Airlines and more importantly their customers are getting away from the old obsolete hub and spoke networks, passengers are demanding direct flights without changing planes or stopovers, and the fact that the A380 is limited to major hub airports, will seal its fate.

In the overall picture, this aircraft seems more of a badge of honor or a symbol of the might of the European Union (and France especially), than a solid well thought out business plan. And sadly, it's also one that all citizens of European Union will be paying for for many years.

We do live in interesting times... don't we.

[Cpt. Airriot]

Re: A380

Go check out this site.

Building an A380 from scratch

With lots of pictures and movies

http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp

[Peashooter]

Re: A380

Great post, Mark! One way it may work is fewer, fuller flights. Not a convenience item, to be sure. Feeder airlines will be even more important. Meanwhile, our local Comair can't keep their computer system up. Wayne, aafo.com has been darn stable. Maybe there's a job for you!

Maybe the answer is more light rail.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: A380

Well, to be honest - there is certainly a nitch for a super transport aircraft for frieght/box haulers (FedEx, UPS, DHL, ect.) as well as a super jumbo carrier for airlines that run limited numbers of transpacific flights (Quantas, China Airlines, Singapore Airlines, ect.) and transatlantic flights (Luftansa, British Airways, ect.). However given the "break even" point set at 250 units delivered (which will probably go higher since there are a lot of big discounts being given at this time as well as the current & future cost overruns) this seems to fall well above the needs of the current market. With the existing pre-delivery orders of 149 units... they are facing a huge uphill battle.

But the EU isn't without it's own form of putting pressure on "allies" to buy it's new toy. linkie - compassion in action.

Even before this aircraft has flown there are some big problems - not the least of which is that the first aircraft built is 5 tons overwieght. Yes, it's just slightly under then 1% of the GTW - but can you imagine the re-engineering and cost that is going to be involved to shave off 5 tons? Not a very easy task, even if money was not an issue.

Also another issue is that the Eurpoean Union is heavily vested in this $13+ billion aircraft program in the form of huge goverment subsidies to Airbus, currently amounting to some $3 billion in "repayable" aid for the A380 project (which already is $1.93 billion over budget). This has embroiled the US and the European Union in a bitter dispute over the legality of government subsidies provided for Airbus. Last week the US and the European Commission stepped back from launching the biggest trade dispute in the history of the World Trade Organisation by agreeing to start three months of talks to try to reach a settlement aimed at reducing or eliminating subsidies. However, the four government leaders backed a strong stance by the European Commission in the talks with Washington. Mr Schröder said: "There is tremendous competition . .. in the negotiations the European Commission must really push for European interests and hold up the European flag." One can see that this is not going to be resolved very easily - in fact I would hazard a guess that this battle is just beginning and will lead to similar action being taken by the US & Boeing if/when no agreement is reached.

Reguardless - there are a lot of unanswered questions given that all of the projected claims of Airbus are just that... projected claims. We will see if the aircraft lives up to them.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: A380

It's kind of interesting that probably one of, if not the most profitable airline in, for sure, the United States, maybe the world, is an airline flying a "small" airplane, the Boeing 737.

Is bigger better?

Obviously, the routes that Southwest flies are different by a large margin than the airlines that the big new airbus will be targeting but I agree with Mark on this for sure...

Probably be a great freight hauler and didn't someone post that FedEx or Brown had the first big stake in there for orders...

Good topic!

Just a personal preference, mind you but when this "kid" flies commercial, I am always most happy when the preflight pamphlet says "Boeing" on it! Lots of people make lots of good airplanes but there's just something about the guys who made the flying fort that instills confidence..

Airliners lose cargo doors and go down, Boeing's lose them and go home.. albeit with a hole in them and missing "stuff" to be sure but... I'll never forget the picture of that Hawaiian Airlines 737 with about 1/3 of the top of the fuse gone.. it made it home!

Study that photo if you can find a copy and imagine any other airliner doing the same thing!

All of the above is COMPLETELY un scientific biased consumer OPINION and nothing more. Not based on anything but gut feeling.