Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

[comancheflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Why?

http://www.latimes.com/videobeta/wat...mpty&src=front

Yeah thats pretty much what half of my student pilots have to say too - why follow the rules?? I mean flying is a right and not a privilege ... or is it the other way around

[Race 22 Crew]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Not a pilot, but as I understand it, if you are out over open water, there is no altitude limit/restriction, other then the 500 feet seperation, whether that is vertical or horizontal does not matter.

FAA: (c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

Back in the day they called it barnstorming.....today they call it a violation.

Didn't use the best judgement, but the did get pubilicity for the movie.

Warren

[dvddude]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Here is the official NTSB court document relating to this case:

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/AVIATION/5436.PDF

It has 50 pages worth of details in it and should answer everyone's questions. It's extremely interesting and has some quite revealing information in it, especially in regards to Skip. It's worth a read, if, for no other reason, than to get the truth.

[dvddude]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Probably not going to matter...speculation is that Skip has a "get-out-of-jail-free" card for issues such as these. He's had to use it before like someone mentioned earlier when he got into trouble in a Mustang.

Why does Skip get a "get-out-of-jail-free" card for these kind of issues? Does he have higher up connections at the FAA or is it due to his "celebrity status" for being such a well known pilot?

[stuntflyr]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Most of us could have a really nice airplane, gas and hangar rent for some time with all the dough this dude must be spending on attorneys's fees.

That video on the LA Times site is awesome! The herd of running people is quite impressive.

[BKB]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I have 1 question.......................................... ..............................

How much did all that cost?

Yeah sure he was flying low.............but endangering folks?

Just my opinion...................but seem there are more important things to be spending money on.

B2

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Boy, you guys are a rough crowd!

I did not have time to read the 50 page (double spaced so, not really that long) but did read it closely enough to come to the conclusion that Skip Holm was never charged for any violation in this incident and, in fact, served as a witness for the "good guys"...

Let's keep the reputation and experience level of Skip in mind here when we type our words.. and, of course, the fact that it does not appear that Skip was named in this action, other than a witness for the prosecution..

[Airpirate]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

fine display of flying as always. What a bunch of whining whimps out there.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

"What a bunch of whining whimps out there" he said, tongue firmly planted in cheek, many smiley faces in place as not to offend anyone writing in this thread previously......

[Airpirate]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

No offense to anyone posting on this site, anyone that flys or appreciates airplanes is okay in my book. I was referring to the spastic phone calls from the nice people in Kalifornia. "Military Jets flying low, oh my, the sky is falling"

Dude put down the pipe and enjoy a impressive display of airmanship.

[dvddude]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

No offense to anyone posting on this site, anyone that flys or appreciates airplanes is okay in my book. I was referring to the spastic phone calls from the nice people in Kalifornia. "Military Jets flying low, oh my, the sky is falling"

Dude put down the pipe and enjoy a impressive display of airmanship.

That is hilarious! I couldn't agree more.

I just wish the FAA thought like you did. Unfortunately some people over there just enjoy the power and control of their jobs to make other people more miserable.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Let's keep the reputation and experience level of Skip in mind here when we type our words.. and, of course, the fact that it does not appear that Skip was named in this action, other than a witness for the prosecution.

Keep in mind that neither reputation nor experience prevent any pilot from making errors in judgment.

No pilot is so experienced that he is infallible.

I can list for you right off hand a half dozen well known, well respected, highly experienced pilots who are *dead* today *because* they exercised bad judgment in an airplane.

[Speed Quest]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Contrary to what appears to be almost tacit approval of the pilot's actions in 'buzzing' the pier at Santa Monica from some of the respondents on this topic, I have a number of issues with the pilot's actions. As lead in a formation, the responsibility is to "plan the flight, fly the plan". Obviously, lead in this case decided to 'go off and show off'. It is very telling that Skip Holm did not follow these actions, again demonstrating the professionalism that has earned him high respect in the flying community.
If your family was on that pier, would you be happy or angry to see an L39, flown by someone you did not know, approaching at 250 knots or more, whose intentions could be as harmful as his judgement was poor???? There is a reason why aircraft demonstrations are never flown directly at the crowd in the US.
Secondly, any action which brings more secrutiny to civilian operation of ex military aircraft, especially demonstrating what could be perceived as reckless, careless, or dangerous operations, puts more public pressure on the FAA to clamp down and further restrict the operation of these aircraft. There is currently additional proposed rules that will make it more difficult and restrictive to operate these jets: right now we need to be doing things better, and I doubt if any jet warbird owner or pilot that watched that video did not feel that another 'nail was just drove into the coffin'. :

[comancheflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Contrary to what appears to be almost tacit approval of the pilot's actions in 'buzzing' the pier at Santa Monica from some of the respondents on this topic, I have a number of issues with the pilot's actions. As lead in a formation, the responsibility is to "plan the flight, fly the plan". Obviously, lead in this case decided to 'go off and show off'. It is very telling that Skip Holm did not follow these actions, again demonstrating the professionalism that has earned him high respect in the flying community.
If your family was on that pier, would you be happy or angry to see an L39, flown by someone you did not know, approaching at 250 knots or more, whose intentions could be as harmful as his judgement was poor???? There is a reason why aircraft demonstrations are never flown directly at the crowd in the US.
Secondly, any action which brings more secrutiny to civilian operation of ex military aircraft, especially demonstrating what could be perceived as reckless, careless, or dangerous operations, puts more public pressure on the FAA to clamp down and further restrict the operation of these aircraft. There is currently additional proposed rules that will make it more difficult and restrictive to operate these jets: right now we need to be doing things better, and I doubt if any jet warbird owner or pilot that watched that video did not feel that another 'nail was just drove into the coffin'. :

Well said! We as pilots cannot afford to bring any more scrutiny upon itself - especially in this day in age. Look at how our congress greeted the (not so) Big 3 last Fall in Washington when they arrived in private jets. And, with the current administration, it's not a question of 'if' but only 'when' we will be forced to pay aviation user fees. Yep - that well known $100 burger is going to be taxed too guys.

[SCEPTER]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Contrary to what appears to be almost tacit approval of the pilot's actions in 'buzzing' the pier at Santa Monica from some of the respondents on this topic, I have a number of issues with the pilot's actions. As lead in a formation, the responsibility is to "plan the flight, fly the plan". Obviously, lead in this case decided to 'go off and show off'. It is very telling that Skip Holm did not follow these actions, again demonstrating the professionalism that has earned him high respect in the flying community.
If your family was on that pier, would you be happy or angry to see an L39, flown by someone you did not know, approaching at 250 knots or more, whose intentions could be as harmful as his judgement was poor???? There is a reason why aircraft demonstrations are never flown directly at the crowd in the US.
Secondly, any action which brings more secrutiny to civilian operation of ex military aircraft, especially demonstrating what could be perceived as reckless, careless, or dangerous operations, puts more public pressure on the FAA to clamp down and further restrict the operation of these aircraft. There is currently additional proposed rules that will make it more difficult and restrictive to operate these jets: right now we need to be doing things better, and I doubt if any jet warbird owner or pilot that watched that video did not feel that another 'nail was just drove into the coffin'. :

Well said. I like watching low flying and speed as much as the next guy.
But if I was on that pier that day I would be shaking my head. Not the time or the place for it.