Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

[Ron101502]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

OK, I've flown for a living all my adult life, over 42 years, and I've had a couple incidents with the FAA. First of all Bob Hoover did nothing wrong, it was a vendetta of two "feds" that migrated to the FAA aeromedical system when there was no official head of that office.

Anybody who flies an airplane that does anything other than straight and level cross country flying is automatically "suspect" to both the press and the FAA. Skip should know this. I had several instances when I had a Pitts and when I flew the BD-5J when another pilot would come up and ask "how fast does it cruise" (answer, it doesn't cruise, it does aerobatics) and then they would drop a dime to the FAA because they were jealous of pilots that don't get scared of banking past 30 degrees.

I got totally out of "fun" flying because I knew as an airline pilot to whom flying is the only way I can make a living it was too high a liability to risk losing my license and job.

I'm afraid Skip will get screwed but maybe he never realized how vulnerable he was as a civilian pilot in high performance aircraft.

The other question is, giving Mr. Riggs' reputation and criminal record, was Skip so hard up that he had to work for a known criminal?? Sad if that was the case.

I guess it also says something about the current state of affairs that a genuine war hero like Skip had to take that job. And even though nobody on the ground was threatened the press and public and especially the FA A will never see it that way.

The government doesn't care about right and wrong, it's about political correctness.

Maybe someone could set up a legal defense fund for Skip if it becomes necessary like happened for Mr. Hoover. I'll donate as long as Riggs gets no money.

Ron

[split-s]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Just watched the video. Isn't that what living is all about?

$

[Cloudchaser427]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Hey Ron ;~) Just wanted to comment on Skip. I'm not sure how hard he will get spanked if at all, but knowing Skip I don't feel he was in that aircraft because he was "hard up". I see it as another opportunity for him to fly as he still loves it. Sure he got paid, but he has many business ventures that keep him going. A few years ago he helped me ferry an experimental Thunder Mustang from Florida to California ( one day trip )and we had a blast doing it and we got to "play" at many approprate times during the flight. Our flight back was well planned and professional with a few laughs mixed in. I hope he will be OK with the outcome of this issue. Great guy, excellent pilot, waiting for the facts.

Cloudchaser

[Ron101502]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I'm a big fan of Skip's as well, hope all works out for him.

For any of you pilots out there, even if you don't fly aerobatics, I strongly recommend joining AOPA and signing up for their legal services program. The dues are only about $40 and the insurance $100 a year and they haven't raised their rates in 20 years.

I had the misfortune of falling into an unintentional paperwork trap that almost cost me at least a 30 day suspension and even my union (Air Line Pilots Association) reps didn't think they could get me out of it even though it was really the company's mistake and coverup of a mechanical problem that I actually had reported after I discovered the problem in flight. Even though I called the company and asked if I should return to get it fixed or use contract maintenance at the next station (which I did and got a satisfactory repair), even though it wasn't documented in the log book correctly the feds still violated ME for flying the airplane to begin with. The "careless and reckless" act of flying a Convair 580 with an intermittent outside air temperature guage on a clear August day almost cost me my ticket. But the AOPA lawyers came through, case thrown out, no "letter in my file", and all it cost me was a trip to DC to meet the lawyers. Insurance covered the rest at $150 per hour (this in 1988 or so).

Let's hope Skip doesn't need that kind of help but I strongly recommend this program for all pilots wether they fly for fun or for a living.

Ron

[wyhdah]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I've not really studied the video but it looks like they never overflew the peir at low altitude except maybe that pullup at the end that begs what is the rule, beside vertical seperation, about low passes besides such a structure?

[Myles]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

You know it's a good buzz job when you see people running for cover and screaming their heads off!

[supercub]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I love to watch fast and low flying airplanes too.......that's part of the attraction of Reno, however in this case as far as I'm concerned it was just plain stupid. Can you imagine how some of those people on the pier felt.......I'm sure some of them thought it might be an attack similar to 9-11........some crazed pilot that was going to crash into the pier......I'm sure that's what the people running and screaming were thinking. Besides breaking numerous FAR's, it was poor judgement and out and out disreguard for the safety of those he was buzzing, not to mention the negative impact his actions had on general aviation.......in other words.....one more nail in the coffin. Thanks for being selfish.
Brian

[comancheflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I love to watch fast and low flying airplanes too.......that's part of the attraction of Reno, however in this case as far as I'm concerned it was just plain stupid. Can you imagine how some of those people on the pier felt.......I'm sure some of them thought it might be an attack similar to 9-11........some crazed pilot that was going to crash into the pier......I'm sure that's what the people running and screaming were thinking. Besides breaking numerous FAR's, it was poor judgement and out and out disreguard for the safety of those he was buzzing, not to mention the negative impact his actions had on general aviation.......in other words.....one more nail in the coffin. Thanks for being selfish.
Brian

I was starting to think that I was the only one out there that thought this was a stupid and irresponsible stunt after reading the many replies. Unless we fly responsible and play by the rules, GA as we know it will eventually cease to exist. Aviation is only going to get stricter and more expensive, and its stunts like this and others that will only push that process along for the rest of us.

[SCEPTER]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Unless we fly responsible and play by the rules, GA as we know it will eventually cease to exist. Aviation is only going to get stricter and more expensive, and its stunts like this and others that will only push that process along for the rest of us.

And they will start by restricting warbirds.......

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

And they will start by restricting warbirds.......

Do "they" have that right?

I'm glad this question has arisen.

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to express myself - say in the form of aerobatics?

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to travel? If not, do "they" have the restrict how - what form - I chose to travel?

Although this L-39 incident is regrettable (not to mention stupid), we must be ready to fight for our rights. Perhaps one way to do that, is to make the same type of threat to "their" favorite activities...

If we chose to just lay down and take it, "they" won't stop here. Eventually, there will be another perceived slight and another attack on someone else's rights will begin.

Where do you draw the line?

[comancheflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Do "they" have that right?

I'm glad this question has arisen.

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to express myself - say in the form of aerobatics?

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to travel? If not, do "they" have the restrict how - what form - I chose to travel?

Although this L-39 incident is regrettable (not to mention stupid), we must be ready to fight for our rights. Perhaps one way to do that, is to make the same type of threat to "their" favorite activities...

If we chose to just lay down and take it, "they" won't stop here. Eventually, there will be another perceived slight and another attack on someone else's rights will begin.

Where do you draw the line?

If you're interested in protecting general aviation from new and higher user fees and taxes, increasingly more restrictive air space to fly in, saving local airports from being closed because of the morons that move close by and then complain about the noise (this one always gripes me) then you might consider joining AOPA. They are our advocates in Washington that represent airplane and flying enthusiasts and they help educate our representatives about the true benefits of general aviation.

Santa Monica Airport itself is a good example. It has been under under pressure to be closed for sometime now because of aircraft noise. They actually have microphones in place that measure the noise level of each aircraft as they depart, and if that noise level exceeds a certain amount, the pilot will receive a warning. If it occurs again, then he is fined, etc. Its so restrictive that DC-3 cannot takeoff from the airport from which it was built. Thats just not right in my book.

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

ComancheFlyer,
Thanks for the reply. I'm already a member of AOPA and have been for many years (EAA, too).
The point of my post is to attempt to re-visit the philosophy that brought us to this point. That is, through incremental changes, our rights are being eroded.
First, it was voluntary curfews at night, then the curfews (at many airports) became mandatory. Noise abatement programs changed from voluntary to mandatory, too. Little by little, our rights are being whittled away.
"No, we can't have jets here!" Etc., etc., etc...
So I say to you and everyone else, we need to get off the defensive and on the offensive. When some one or some group challenges your rights to do something, challenge their right to infringe on your civil rights!
It would be a violation of my civil rights to inhibit my ability to travel, why isn't AOPA pursuing that aspect?
"Going along to get along" has only brought us to the point we're at now.
Chris

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

It seems simple to me. When speaking of "MY rights", I have to consider everyone's rights.

One does NOT have the right to do whatever one pleases if it infringes on other's rights and/or safety as well. We all have to live together in this shrinking world, and can't just think of me, me, me as so much of our youth is doing today (Am I the only one to notice this?). There's already too much selfish thinking in this world already that it makes me sick with disbelief.

Yes, one should have the right to fly aeroatics or do whatever, if it can be done without threatening other folk or their property. Buzzing beaches is an example of infringing on others, unless you can find a coastline without anyone or anything to endanger.


Selfish thinking runs on both sides of the airport fence too. An example is people who move close to airports and then complain of the noise or "planes falling out of the sky on my children playing in the yard", and start fighting to get the airport closed. Anyone with the ability to think for themselves would have realized these issues before buying/renting such a home, and should not count on their gripes on the topic to produce results to keep them happy.


The key is to look at AND COMPREHEND all viewpoints, and not just blindly look from one's own position alone and assume that's enough.

Peace.

[split-s]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to express myself - say in the form of aerobatics?

The mailing of dog excrement to elected officials has been defended as "free, political speech". You should damned well be able to get away with aerobatics, but things obviously don't always have to make sense.

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to travel? If not, do "they" have the restrict how - what form - I chose to travel?

As a natural fact, you only have what rights you can assert or defend. The creature of the government instinctively knows this and exploits it. We have to anticipate government's centrifugal character.

If we chose to just lay down and take it, "they" won't stop here. Eventually, there will be another perceived slight and another attack on someone else's rights will begin.

Brave men will look down this road to its event horizon. Any of them keeping their courage are doing better than I am.

$

[comancheflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

The mailing of dog excrement to elected officials has been defended as "free, political speech". You should damned well be able to get away with aerobatics, but things obviously don't always have to make sense.



As a natural fact, you only have what rights you can assert or defend. The creature of the government instinctively knows this and exploits it. We have to anticipate government's centrifugal character.



Brave men will look down this road to its event horizon. Any of them keeping their courage are doing better than I am.

$

Does anyone understand what that was about?? This forum took a weird turn to say the least.

I love a good air show as much as anyone. If I could make it to Reno each and every year I would, but I cannot. But when I do, that is the the place (along with other air shows) where I will expect FAST, LOUD, and HAIR RAISING air racing and fantastic aerobatics to occur, NOT the Santa Monica pier, sorry. Those days are over. If I was there that day I would be pissed too. The same goes for auto racing. If I had kids, would I take them to a stock car race or drag race at a race track - you bet I would. Would I expect or enjoy stupid racing antics in my neighborhood by kids in their WRX4tiXYZ Subatoyonissan or whatever zippy car doing 100 down my block, absolutely not. It's pretty much the same thing folks. Eventually common sense has to come into play in this discussion.