Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

[split-s]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

What, you couldn't follow that?

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Now-Now everyone calm down & don't forget the Reno air races are only 11 months away (almost). Enjoy our short lives & try to listen to all points of view without over reacting. 9/11/01 changed everything & nothing in the GA/Warbirds community will ever be the same.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Only 11 months? Damn, I better get to packing...

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Do "they" have the right to restrict my right to travel? If not, do "they" have the restrict how - what form - I chose to travel?

It seems they think they do. I know have to give additional personal information 3 days in advance to fly to Canada to meet with my employer who is based around Toronto.

I find it very alarming that I, a person born in San Diego and a citizen in good standing has to "notify" my government in advance in order to leave this country for Canada, a country we have a very positive relationship with.

So can regional travel "requirements" be far behind?

Spacegrrrl

[Skyracer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

This is 2009, right? Starting to sound like "1984".

Remember, it's "We the People of the United States, ... ."

[split-s]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

"Bumagi, pozhalste."

[Frank C.]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Whats the big deal if Skip buzzed the pier anyways? If anyone can do a buzzjob, Skip is the man...

The big DEAL is someone could have been killed! I go to the Air Races and know the risk, those people on the pier did not sign-up for that risk.


Frank C.

[Frank C.]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I love to watch fast and low flying airplanes too.......that's part of the attraction of Reno, however in this case as far as I'm concerned it was just plain stupid. Can you imagine how some of those people on the pier felt.......I'm sure some of them thought it might be an attack similar to 9-11........some crazed pilot that was going to crash into the pier......I'm sure that's what the people running and screaming were thinking. Besides breaking numerous FAR's, it was poor judgement and out and out disreguard for the safety of those he was buzzing, not to mention the negative impact his actions had on general aviation.......in other words.....one more nail in the coffin. Thanks for being selfish.
Brian

I totally agree with your quote. Thanks for setting the sane folks straight.
Yes, sometimes the FAA does stupid things, but there are still rules you have to follow to pilot an aircraft.


Frank C>

[Leo]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Every time I see someone from the local airport go forth and practice aerobatics (in the legal area) I stand outside and watch, wishing they could be closer. Twice since I have lived here there have been problems, resulting in crashes near my home. Both times I am glad they are restricted to an area where all that was hurt was some sagebrush, an airplane and possibly a slow ground squirrel or rabbit (sorry PETA), and the pilots had enough altitude to get out. Most rules are there for a good reason, those that are not are the result of government just doing it's normal efficient (?) work.
Don't want restrictive laws? Fight them through lobbying with the groups mentioned in other posts. Don't want our favorite aircraft banned? Then fly them maturely, with judgement and within the rules AT ALL TIMES. People see one stunt like this and they forget the tens of thousands of other flights that were safely performed.
Ya gotta remember that to the non-flying and non-interested public all small planes are Pipercubs and all warbirds old relics. Jets? Hotshot rich guys playing with expensive toys.

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

So my take on this is it seems to me that Skip got hired to fly as the "two ship" for what he thought was a reasonable "legal" display and that turned into some "hotdog" idiot buzzing some folks in a horribly irresponsible fashion.

It sounds like Skip clearly tried to stop this "idiot" from buzzing the pier via the radio. I don't know that Skip did anything he can be directly faulted for.

I do agree that dumb acts like the lead pilot pulled off hurt every private pilot and in particular folks fortunate to have non-conventional aircraft like these jets. We can only hope that the powers that be realize that this is the exception, not the norm.

Sad day for private aviation for sure, but I think Skip showed some maturity and I hope will stay in the clear. Skip without a pilot's license would be a loss to us all!

Spacegrrrl

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

I'm glad to see so many great responses. It's obvious that some good thought went into them.

First, again, let me state that buzzing the pier was stupid in my opinion. From the video footage, the buzzing also appeared to violate more than one F.A.R.

But what I resent is the all-too-automatic over-reaction against aviation.

For example, had a car "raced" down the pier and hit and injured (or worse) people on the pier, would there be a call to ban cars?

Even if that car had been some expensive and exotic, say a Ferrari, would there be any discussion about banning Ferraris or other exotic sports cars?

NO.

And that's my point. Why then, do we - those of us in the aviation (pro-airplane) community - tolerate such consideration(s)?

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

For example, had a car "raced" down the pier and hit and injured (or worse) people on the pier, would there be a call to ban cars?

On piers, perhaps. That's already happening.

But I don't think you can directly compare cars, used by so many citizens, with G.A. aircraft, which are flown by so few, relatively speaking. If EVERYONE flew small planes, it might be a different story. Not many folk view aircraft the way we do.

If a car runs into a house (as happened to my next-door neighbor), it's KINDA news, but if a plane falls out of the sky on one, it's headlines, regardless of how rarely it happens to either.


So, comparing the 2 in the same light just doesn't work, especially when speaking of louder and faster jet aircraft, which may be closer in comparison to seeing an Indy racer heading down the local expressway.

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

AirDOGGe,

Thanks for the reply.

First, I agree that general aviation aircraft and cars aren't the same thing. However, each group of "users" (pilots and drivers) have the right to travel, and therefore, the right to use those devices as long
as they're not endangering anyone.

I can remember a few times over the years, when a driver has lost control of a car and "plowed" through a crowd, sometimes with very tragic results. Was there a call to ban cars then?

Yet here, regarding the buzzing of the Santa Monica pier, there is a call to ban or greatly restrict warbird flying. In my opinion, that would be a violation of my civil rights. I - and you - have the right to travel; does anyone dispute that? So if I have the right to travel, does any government have the right to restrict that mode of travel - as long as I'm not endangering someone (by doing so)?

Yet, AOPA has never (to my knowledge) made a civil rights argument. Instead, it's more of the "go-along-to-get-along" attitude that results in a gradual, or incremental, degradation of our rights.

And to that, I strongly object.

Chris

[Funflyer]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Licences ( either driving or flying ) are not a right, they are a priviledge. Rad

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Oooooops - It's usually not a good thing to buz the Santa Monica pier in a L-39

Licences ( either driving or flying ) are not a right, they are a priviledge. Rad

One, that's disputable, but that's also not the point here.

Do you, do I, do "we" have the right to travel?

We do.

Do you, do I, do "we" have the right to express ourselves?

We do.

If that expression takes the form of, say, aerobatics, do you have the right to stop me from expressing myself? Well, do you?

As long as I'm not endangering someone else, you don't. I wouldn't forfeit your civil rights, why would you forfeit mine?

My point is that there is a civil rights aspect to this argument that isn't being pursued. So I wonder, why not?