Split Focke Wolf Thread

[mem916]

It is a cool plane and I am looking forward to seeing it fly this weekend. However, I really wish they had left that damn swastika off. I can't look at that symbol without feeling intense loathing. Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald ... 6 million butchered like animals.

[First time Juke]

Re: Oh Focke

It is a cool plane and I am looking forward to seeing it fly this weekend. However, I really wish they had left that damn swastika off. I can't look at that symbol without feeling intense loathing. Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald ... 6 million butchered like animals.

Swatika did get some unpresetented load on it during WW II. Also several baltic countries AF:s had swastika symbol on the planes as national insignia ( not a party emblem ) including Finland. It is a powerful ancient symbol and dates back to Indian early cultures. Finland received her first Thulin monoplane from count Rosen of Sweden and blue swastika was painted on it back then ( family emblem of the von Rosens ) and was back then adopted as such.

What many seems to fail to remember is that dr. Heinrich Focke was mainly concentrated in airliners and helicopters and was thrown out from his own company before the war as the nazis took over. FW 190 was a brain child of dr. Kurt Tank; a brilliant engineer as he is often described.

I think the rough conditions of the war ( lack of food and medicin ) did make Hitler and Himmler more blunt in the way they treated jews and gypsies and other minorities..as I recall original plan was to move them into Madagasgar island.

The R-2800 powered FW seeems to lack the fan cooling unit from the cowl. Does that make the difference in cooling down the engine ?

[flyingjibus]

Re: Oh Focke

It is a cool plane and I am looking forward to seeing it fly this weekend. However, I really wish they had left that damn swastika off. I can't look at that symbol without feeling intense loathing. Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald ... 6 million butchered like animals.

How about the Red Star on the Yaks and L-29's? Does it remind you of
20 Million people Stalin murdered?

Or the Stars and Bars on all the American planes? Do you feel then pain of all the Japanese Americans who were turned out from thier homes and forced into internment camps?

History is ugly, and ignoring it leads to us repeating it. I understand if you have strong feelings about Nazi's, but please dont be selective with your loathing.

[NoVibes]

Re: Oh Focke

It is a cool plane and I am looking forward to seeing it fly this weekend. However, I really wish they had left that damn swastika off. I can't look at that symbol without feeling intense loathing. Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald ... 6 million butchered like animals.

So we should wipe such symbols to prevent them from ever being seen or remembered?
I would counter that it is better to remember and KNOW our past to try and prevent the same mistakes from being made in the future.

[split-s]

Re: Oh Focke

How about the Red Star on the Yaks and L-29's? Does it remind you of
20 Million people Stalin murdered?

Or the Stars and Bars on all the American planes? Do you feel then pain of all the Japanese Americans who were turned out from thier homes and forced into internment camps?

History is ugly, and ignoring it leads to us repeating it. I understand if you have strong feelings about Nazi's, but please dont be selective with your loathing.

Thanks for making that point, FJB. Likewise, NoVibes' remark about keeping reminders out of view.

Remember the Rising Sun fashion back in the '80s? The battle flag of imperial Japan was found on headbands, neckties, &c. Same folk, I reckon, nowadays tote those Chairman Mao shoulder bags or wear Che Guevara t-shirts. It's odd how they don't get the same hairy eyeball as the hakenkreuz.

$

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Oh Focke

It is a cool plane and I am looking forward to seeing it fly this weekend. However, I really wish they had left that damn swastika off. I can't look at that symbol without feeling intense loathing. Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald ... 6 million butchered like animals.

Personally, I don't see the point in leaving the marking off. If it makes you feel intense loathing, then GOOD. It should serve as a reminder to never let this happen again.

I feel the same way about the WWII aircraft I saw in German museums -- rather than sterilizing the swastika so as to not bring up bad memories, it should remain there to ensure that nobody forgets.

[First time Juke]

Re: Nazi Fockers !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190

Only very limited countries or axis friends received FW-190s. Finnish pilots only got to drewl when they saw german allys flying the outstanding FW-190s in the final stages of the WW II battles in Finland against USSR.
You could say that FW-190s did save Finland from becoming part of the USSR in summer of 1944.
This is one opinion and back in 1944 very few knew what was going on in Buchenwald, Dachau, Birkenau, Natsweiler or Bergen-Belsen. Some people definitely did.

[Lance]

Re: Oh Focke

Personally, I don't see the point in leaving the marking off. If it makes you feel intense loathing, then GOOD. It should serve as a reminder to never let this happen again.

EXACTLY!

[mrcraigarcher]

Re: Oh Focke

Maybe next year, if it will make anyone feel better, we can get one of the Mustangs to shoot it down!

Seriously, though. I agree with everyone who says it should serve as a reminder of the evil that has been associated with the symbol. It's an unfortunate hijacking of a symbol that has been in use for hundreds of years by non-Nazis, but it is what it is. (Kinda like Churchill's victory "V" somehow now means peace) Anyway, I digress. As a kid I lived in Germany with my family who was stationed in Ramstein. We, wanting to experience the German culture, lived about an hour off base in a tiny little village called Huffler. Although I was only 10 at the time, I truly cherish that time we spent as "foreigners" amongst the Germans. They were some of the kindest people, in general, that I've ever met. Hopefully, the FW-190 can serve as a reminder of two nations that are NO LONGER at war!

[IcePaq]

Re: Oh Focke

Maybe it's a finnish swastika.

[Guest]

Re: Oh Focke

Flyingjibus,

Are you seriously drawing a comparison between the US's treatment of the Japanese American's during WWII and the treatment of the Jews, Gypsies, and indigenous peoples of eastern Europe by the Nazi's and Russians?

Really? While the US isn't without dark corners in its history, comparing those to Germany's concentration camps and the Russian Gulag's of WWII (not to mention the autrocities actually on the battlefield) is ridiculous.

[Sparrow]

Re: Oh Focke

Not to mention the facts of the Jap buchery of the Chinese from the early 30's onward. Let's not forget history or re-arrange it to suit the purposes at the time...........

[First time Juke]

Re: Oh Fockers !

Maybe it's a finnish swastika.

Finnish swastika in the aeroplanes here is also banned and new roundel was introduced after the war briefly.

Luckily finns did deny the deportation of jews here...Marschal Mannerheim told visiting Himmler and Keitel ( ? ) that we don't have a jewish problem and denied any illegal actions against the 2000 strong jewish community.

Let's not forget the huguenots of France who got kicked out due to the religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot

Germany actually used to be the home of all refugees several hundred years ago.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Oh Focke

Flyingjibus,

Are you seriously drawing a comparison between the US's treatment of the Japanese American's during WWII and the treatment of the Jews, Gypsies, and indigenous peoples of eastern Europe by the Nazi's and Russians?

Really? While the US isn't without dark corners in its history, comparing those to Germany's concentration camps and the Russian Gulag's of WWII (not to mention the autrocities actually on the battlefield) is ridiculous.

Absolutely.

Am I saying that our actions were just as bad? I think you know the answer to that.

Our motivations for doing what we did were born out of the same fears and cultural differences. When talking about actions taken by countries against their own citizens during WWII it would be ignorant and misleading to not mention what we did.

Attemtping to gloss over the facts and cast Germany and Russia in a negative light while not mentioning what happened here is ridiculous. As is feigning indignation over me implying that (gasp!) My own country did something wrong!

[flyingjibus]

Re: Oh Focke

Not to mention the facts of the Jap buchery of the Chinese from the early 30's onward. Let's not forget history or re-arrange it to suit the purposes at the time...........

I am well aware of the things that happened to the Chinese.

I did not mention them because there are no planes at reno flying the raising sun.