Miss Ashley II

[Mustang1957]

Re: Miss Ashley II

will,here's to hoping you are right about the future of unlimited racing.

[Jason S.]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I was told that the Lear wing was great for straight line speeds but wouldn’t be so on the course; I guess we’ll never know.
Skip once said that Miss Ashley II very, very fast during cross country flight.
Jason

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Miss Ashley II

When this site first was born, the two main stories we covered were the Spruce Goose and then, Miss Ashley II... actually, the two stories converged, because I became friends with the museum director at Evergreen Gary Thompson, who also was good friends with Gary Levitz, who flew the museum's P-38.... so one thing led to another, contact information was shared.. we got stories... and on and on...

Using the little known and used site search here... I dug back through the archives and came up with, I think, most of the stuff we (Mark Kallio and myself) produced at the time..

http://aafo.com/racing/news/97/mystery1.htm

http://aafo.com/racing/people/brogers.htm

http://aafo.com/racing/news/98/06-10-98.htm

http://aafo.com/racing/news/98/12-08-98.htm

http://aafo.com/racing/news/99/03-27-99.htm

It's a pretty good history of the airplane and Gary and Bill from about the 1997 time frame.. the second link covers a lot of the history, the rest are, first the "discovery" of the airplane up at Paine and then, following the story from there..

I really need to set up the archives of this site so that they can be found easier.. there is some good stuff buried in the basement...

Hope you enjoy...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I was told that the Lear wing was great for straight line speeds but wouldn’t be so on the course; I guess we’ll never know.
Skip once said that Miss Ashley II very, very fast during cross country flight.
Jason

Jason, I've heard that also but Bill Rogers told me entirely different story in those days.. I guess I'll never really know if he was blowing smoke oil up my rear but he told me that they actually were gaining on most of the field in the turns..

Tracing the history of the Lear wing, wasn't it originally a fighter trainer wing, which was then grafted to the first Lear jet fuse??

God I wish that airplane and Gary would not have been lost.. there was so much potential there, so many years of adventure and Bill's quest for speed never really had a chance to move forward..

Bill is still a very special man and I hope we see him at Reno for years to come.. if only as a grand "old man" of the sport.. (he's actually the same age as I am... )

[Mustang1957]

Re: Miss Ashley II

good info wayne,thanks.

[marada mx3]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Wayne:

Thanks for the links. Great stuff!

Not to get off topic, but can you post any archive links to the Spruce Goose stories (since you mentioned her)?

Thanks!
Tommy

[Big_Jim]

Re: Miss Ashley II

When John Dilley got the idea for the Learstang, it wasn't because it was he did a ton of research and settled on the Lear wing as the 'solution'...it was literally because one day a Lear pulled up to Fort Wayne Air Service and he just started looking at it and thought 'hey, that would look pretty racy on a Mustang'.

Remember, the airframe for Vendetta was originally 'intended' to be converted to a TF-51...but the 'bright shiny light' of the Lear wing redirected Dilley's attention. Irony, of course, was that after Vendetta crashed during a test flight in 1989 the Lear stuff was removed and it was rebuilt as the TF "Scat VII".

He said (an both Skip and Gary agreed after the package had been installed on MAII) that the wing gave the racer the maneuverability of a Pitts that he could fly with two fingers.

But if you ask any of the engineers (Eric A--aka Blue Foam, for one), the Lear isn't an optimal wing on the race course...ironically not much better than the Mustang wing itself.

MAII's problem was in it's powerplant...the fact that it used the 'smaller' Griffon engine and was essentially horsepower limited from the start. The owners recognized this problem after the first two years, and I can recall a lot of discussion about what it would take to modify the engine mount, cowling, etc. to get the two-stage Griffon to fit the airframe.

[John]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Six chunky propeller blade tips approaching sonic rather than four or three.

Makes one wonder if Strega's set up is the optimal one these days?

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Michelle, you once "scolded" me for leaving Bill Rogers out of the "toast" (so to speak).. I don't know if too many people know how hard that event was on him.. I looked deeply into his eyes as they were breaking down the pits and to say he had a broken heart would be understatement...

Bill Rogers is one of the few... Here's to Bill Rogers and ALL of the folks who were responsible for making a dream come true. However short lived it was, man... those were the days!

Bill is an amazing man. I have no idea how he overcame the tragic loss of MA II and went on to bring Furias back to Reno. It showed just how much air racing meant to him. Some folks probably don't know that Bill scattered part of his brothers ashes over the front straight on the course from a B-23. Reno really was hollowed ground for him.

I'm really lucky to have gotten to know him. He has done more for racing at Reno than most folks will ever realize. He is a genuine, big hearted one of a kind guy.

Spacegrrrl

[Flyboykelly]

Re: Miss Ashley II

When John Dilley got the idea for the Learstang, it wasn't because it was he did a ton of research and settled on the Lear wing as the 'solution'...it was literally because one day a Lear pulled up to Fort Wayne Air Service and he just started looking at it and thought 'hey, that would look pretty racy on a Mustang'.

Remember, the airframe for Vendetta was originally 'intended' to be converted to a TF-51...but the 'bright shiny light' of the Lear wing redirected Dilley's attention. Irony, of course, was that after Vendetta crashed during a test flight in 1989 the Lear stuff was removed and it was rebuilt as the TF "Scat VII".

He said (an both Skip and Gary agreed after the package had been installed on MAII) that the wing gave the racer the maneuverability of a Pitts that he could fly with two fingers.

But if you ask any of the engineers (Eric A--aka Blue Foam, for one), the Lear isn't an optimal wing on the race course...ironically not much better than the Mustang wing itself.

MAII's problem was in it's powerplant...the fact that it used the 'smaller' Griffon engine and was essentially horsepower limited from the start. The owners recognized this problem after the first two years, and I can recall a lot of discussion about what it would take to modify the engine mount, cowling, etc. to get the two-stage Griffon to fit the airframe.

I'm not a racing expert by any means, but IMHO MAII was one of the most beautiful airplanes ever built, next to the H1 racer. the questions I have are why did the Lear wing cause MAII to have a racing disadvantage, and how effective was the NACA belly scoop.

Brian

[Race5]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I'm not a racing expert by any means, but IMHO MAII was one of the most beautiful airplanes ever built, next to the H1 racer. the questions I have are why did the Lear wing cause MAII to have a racing disadvantage, and how effective was the NACA belly scoop.

Brian

The Lear wing was optimized for high altitude straight line cruise speed, not low altitude, High G turn performance. I remember hearing that above 10k or so in cruising flight that MAII would really haul the mail cross country.

[Reever]

Re: Miss Ashley II

This is a question that I have often wondered about. A Learjet wing was designed for high altitude subsonic flight. This would not be the optimal choice for a racer rounding the pylons at close to 500 mph and at 5,000 ft altitude. Just wondering.

[Flyboykelly]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Did they ever get any real data on weather the NACA belly scoop worked to further reduce cooling drag?

[Lowell]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Just last night (without knowing about this thread) I plugged an old random 8mm video tape in the almost as old 8mm video camera (which is barely working with several issues) and re-discovered some very up-close and personal footage of Gary taxiing in with the brand new Miss Ashley II in 1997 on its arrival day at Reno. I got all of the verbal conversation as he opens the canopy, hops out, and talks to waiting crew and friends about the flight.

Sure was sad remembering how beautiful the airplane was, Gary's obvious enthusiasm, and all the expectations that year!

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Miss Ashley II

This is a question that I have often wondered about. A Learjet wing was designed for high altitude subsonic flight. This would not be the optimal choice for a racer rounding the pylons at close to 500 mph and at 5,000 ft altitude. Just wondering.

Some people believe that a jet's wing must be a better wing because they go so fast. In truth it's just a different wing, made to work best in a particular environment, just as a Cessna 172's wing is optimized for IT'S required range of use.

One aircraft's wing may be stronger and more expensive, but not BETTER for all high-speed uses.